Curse

Dark Paladin X · Jun 21, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Ever since the shadow form buff, I've notice there are more assassin farmers than monks. And not to mention it, 55 monk now completely sucks due to it's fragility, and limited protection from interrupts and enchantment removal (except for [Spell Breaker], but it does NOT protect you from interrupts and enchantment removal that are NOT spells, while Shadow Form does except for skills that are labeled "skill," "signet," or "traps," as well as AoE spells that does not require a target. In addition, when a 55 monk suffer degeneration, s/he's screwed. However, a perma-shadow doesn't really have to worry about degeneration unless something indirectly inflict degen like traps. Also, the perma-shadow can farm more places than a 55 monk can (and farming areas that a 55 monk can do can also be done by perma-shadow). so, would you consider perma-shadow, the new "55 monk," and makes the actual 55 monk, well, let say, sucks and so obsolete?

MisterT69 · Jun 21, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

55 is pretty much an average build. It can farm a bunch of places, and tank in rare occasions. But because of the fact that it's pretty slow, and usually requires a partner or hero for damage, it really is an inferior choice to [Shadow Form] sins and even most ele builds, considering the speed at which these builds operate compared to the 55.

farmerfez · Jun 21, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

55 has been obsolete for awhile lol

Ambuu · Jun 21, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

55 is good in places where there is AoE damage, since perma sins cant take too much of that without a lot of healing.

Chthon · Jun 21, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Depends what you're farming. 55 can still farm things that produce AoE or signet damage that would kill a permasin.

strcpy · Jun 21, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

55's have not been the main farmers for a while now. The last nail in their coffin was the nerf to mystic regen (though that is now removed other skill buffs keep them a good third place or so)

However they have places they do quite well, better than a sin or ele. There are quite a few ranger groups that they can easily kill but are hard to kill with fire spells or sliver armor. There are places that have heavy degen or AoE damage that hits the sin that they take out quite well. There are also a number of two man farming runs that work quite well with them.

Heck, I still even have a place for my 130hp dervish. There aren't many places, but there are still some places that I find it has the fastest time through the run.

jbwarrior · Jun 21, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal

Abedeus · Jun 21, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbwarrior

Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...

Or run A/E with earth prayers and get stoneflesh aura? ;d

It's A Me · Jun 21, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

OR just stick to what you can farm, its not like there is an abundance of places lol

Dae GW · Jun 21, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

I completely disagree with this, when you are talking about the 55 build with the regeneration from mending + healing breeze, true. But there are SO many variations of the normal 55 build. The 55 CAN tank unlimited groups, and i think the 55 can still farm more than the SF, but its a bit harder. And people become lazy this times, so the only thing they want to do is click [Deadly Paradox] + [Glyph of Swiftness] + [Shadow Form].

It's true that the 55 needs a partner in most of the area's, but the killing goes faster, so say that you gain 3 ecto's per run of uw, and a SF gets 6. The 55/ss can do 2 runs in the time that an SF does 1, so that means you gain the same profit.

weretoad · Jun 21, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

and another funny way to look at is, if an assassin farmer and monk farmer wondered into pvp, by mistake, the monk would win wit a bit of lcuk

Mr. Undisclosed · Jun 21, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Sorry to break it to you bud but 55 has been obsolete for a while now.

Elite Bushido · Jun 21, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbwarrior

Sins can't do the smites, zealots fire hits the sin.... even with SF on... so the sin needs a lot of healing...
Also the sins would have a problem against the Charged Blacknesses, shock, whirlwind... to much dmg, so you cannot outheal

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/E_UW_Farmer

you were sayin? hell that build is crazy old too... you must have just forgot about it

Lest121 · Jun 21, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

600 made 55 obsolete.

Age · Jun 21, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Yes. I do think the 55 is obsolete with A/Es running around not only the 55s but most other farming as well like the W/Rit.The 600 didn't make the 55 obsolete.Mystic Regen didn't make the 55 Obsolete as there is Healing Breeze and you can't use MR on a Mo/Mes or /W.

This why I am stongly in favour of Balance to SF so that there are balanced farming builds for everyone.

Dae GW · Jun 21, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Bushido

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/E_UW_Farmer

you were sayin? hell that build is crazy old too... you must have just forgot about it

Just feigned neutrality won't help you out on HM, and he's not only talking about smites, the charged blackness can kill you, in nm and hm. Just forget about it man, the 55's can do way more and way faster than the SF can.

masta_yoda · Jun 21, 2008, 10:55 PM // 22:55

55's cant farm ectos as fast as sf

and farming anything besides ecto is a waste of time for making $$

Dark Paladin X · Jun 21, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

but 55s can't farm ectos in solo because of nightmares that remove enchantments and they have to way to protect themselves from interrupts caused by Bladed Aaxtes and Grasping Darknesses

kdz · Jun 22, 2008, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

but 55s can't farm ectos in solo because of nightmares that remove enchantments and they have to way to protect themselves from interrupts caused by Bladed Aaxtes and Grasping Darknesses

that is just not true - 55 can farm aatxes, graspings, coldfires, and smites - it's just matter of timing, and practice

Avarre · Jun 22, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by underverse_ninja

600 made 55 obsolete.

The only purpose of running 600 health was for the smite return damage. 600 health is not needed for Spirit Bond. The skills that allow a 55 to tank are the same as a 600, because all that varies between the two is the offense type.

Strictly speaking, a 55 can tank infinite enemies with SoA/regen/whatever else gets thrown on the bar. Enemies have life steal? Just up your health to 105 or 135, SB and SoA still work just as well. Now that regen isn't a must-have for tanking because of newer skills, running minimum health isn't a necessity. Calling a build '55' or '600' is what is obsolete, as a good monk tank can rotate health amounts depending on the foes. See full UW clearing runs.

Considering monks can get perma-SB, high regen, and reduction of all damage to 0, as well as use skills like SV because they still get hit, I would say SF doesn't make it obsolete. On the other hand, skillbar compression allows SF builds to bring more offense and thus perform better as solo farmers, so it depends on your goal somewhat.